Chatting with Abha Adams

ABRIDGED VERSION OF THIS INTERVIEW HAS BEEN PUBLISHED IN  MINDFIELDS, A JOURNAL ABOUT IDEAS & LEARNING (3rd Quarter-2009)

Note: Abha Adams is an educationist and runs an educational consultancy. She is based in Delhi.

Rima: You’ve completely defied the image of an educationist. You’ve been  in television, radio, theatre, performing arts and you are a columnist as well. How did you synergize all these into the work you are doing as an educator?

Abha: I wouldn’t be able to make the contribution that I hope I’m making, if I hadn’t had those varied experiences. Just yesterday there was a Principal, a Head of School from the States who came to see me and the person who brought her said, “Oh, you have to meet Mrs. Adams. She’s very wise.” So she came and I was taking her around the school and she said, “You know, you’re nothing like what I expected you to be!” So she imagined that my hair would be the ‘tyranny of the grey’ and I should have it in a top knot. And that’s a stereotype of a school principal or a headmistress…you can’t laugh and you can’t joke and you can’t be energetic. And then I said, “I’m pretty senior in years, it’s just that I color my hair…it comes out of a bottle!”  So she said, “No, but you have energy! ” (laughs)

Anyway, I started life as a lecturer in English. I loved teaching. So in my heart and in my core I’m an educator. I think all educators have two characteristics. One, they enjoy learning. If you don’t enjoy learning then you’re not going to enjoy the teaching-learning experience… and you’re not going to enjoy being with other people who are learning. And I’ve always enjoyed the process. How magical it is that you come to know of different things. And whenever you learn something new, you change… and it changes you. The other thing that I think educators share is that they love communication and they love people. And if you don’t enjoy people of different shapes and sizes, and ages, and if you don’t like communication, then you’re not an educator. And I’ve come across so many teachers who have a string of B. Eds.  And I don’t have a B.Ed. I’m very happy to tell you at this stage. Never had one. So they string on B. Eds, but they can’t get on with children. And they know a lot, they have fabulous first class Honors Degrees and Gold Medalists and so on, but the subject- it doesn’t ignite. The most magical part of teaching and learning is what happens in that moment when transfer of information, knowledge, or exchange of ideas takes place between teacher and child together… “Look, if I do this and this, this is what happens! Really!” That’s the magic! And that doesn’t depend on a B.Ed. or an M.Ed. I might get shot for saying this but I’ve never believed that good teachers are those that necessarily come out of schools of education.

And yes, I was involved with a whole deal of other things. When I finally ended up in school, I couldn’t handle the attitude of well entrenched senior teachers who would say, “No can’t do.”  I said, ‘Why not? Have you tried it?’ You know this resistance, to any kind of newness. New experiences, that’s what theatre gives you, that’s what my experience working in the media had given me. And to be able to tackle those experiences whether you’re interviewing somebody, whether you’re shooting, whether you’re broadcasting from an OB van, so, a breath of experience.  I think educators are, are a bundle of all of these things. I was just very lucky to have come back to education through a little journey.

Rima: You’ve talked about genuine learning. And you feel that most schools are not designed to make this happen. How do we create schools which actually foster genuine learning?

Abha: First the school has to articulate what it means by genuine learning, which I have attempted to define as a process which helps a child think independently, think creatively, helps him or her analyze and lots many other things. Most schools pay lip service to this particular definition. You look at any advertisement for any school at the moment and if you don’t find these words- creative, problem solving, out of the box, I’m prepared to eat my hat, if I had one. But schools not only have to make a commitment, they then have to work on a curriculum framework that says, how we embed these skills. It’s basically skill based teaching.

In a class, any concept that you teach, you have to ensure that you follow a particular cycle of teaching. So first it starts with a teacher getting a starter activity that grabs the attention of the child, followed by an explanation and the teacher uses different ways of explaining that particular concept, followed by a period of research that children do in groups on different aspects of that concept. They then come back as groups and share what they have done or discovered about that particular concept. And then the teacher could perhaps put all of it in a plainer way and say, ‘Okay class, this has been our journey in the 50 minutes today. I told you about this, you explored it.’ ‘I gave you books to research, and the net.’ They analyzed aspects. Then they came back and shared it. So it’s collaboration. And she would have got a worksheet prepared that she gives to everybody or orally she asks questions or she sets an assignment to work on. So students construct their own learning. And then they present it. Therefore there is understanding. Then there is perhaps an activity where they apply it. This is followed by an assessment activity. So every class gives a child an opportunity to think, imagine, create, construct, share, communicate and then, reflect. So the whole learning cycle gets complete.

It’s not easy. You’re asking teachers to teach in a way in which they haven’t been taught. You’re asking them to completely turn themselves inside out. So there’s a great deal of training, they get terribly scared because they feel deskilled. They think, ‘I can’t do this! I’ve been doing a certain way all along. Where’s my textbook?’ And you’re saying, ‘The textbook’s there, but this is what you need.’ So, it takes a great deal of commitment, you have to place it on your vision, then you have to ensure that your academic programme and curriculum framework, the methodology that your teachers are trained in, has to reflect all of this.

Rima: You’ve been associated with change and innovation for over 20 years. Tell me about the education scenario in the 90s. How did you get the stakeholders together to become a school which chalked its own path?

Abha:  I had just come back from the UK then. What I came back to were classes of 50 and 60 kids in a class in the Convents I had left behind. And then there were schools like The Shri Ram School (TSRS) and Vasant Valley School that were trying to strike a different path and that path was – that personalized attention was critical for children to grow and develop. That children should enjoy the whole experience of school. And the care and nurturing that they would receive, if classes were small, would ensure that they would love to come. That’s the first thing. If they loved to come to school, then that’s half the journey. And then you develop a curriculum framework that they learn through doing and through activities, and you map the skills but you make learning so enjoyable and challenging at the same time that they would love to be there. Now I remember this so vividly, first 3 years, everybody, or most parents would say. “Our children are guinea pigs. What will happen in the Board examinations? And you said, ‘The Board examinations are 6 years away. They’re only in class 6.’ ‘No, no, no. But you don’t have tests. You don’t have exams. That child in the other school, same class, in class 3 can recite 16’s timetable and my child doesn’t even know, you know, 12.’ And so you explain to them that what’s the benefit of being able to parrot off timetables by rote. Does he understand multiples of 16? If you ask your child the basic principle of multiplication, he will tell you. And he will show you ‘sets’. Learning has to be age appropriate. That was the first hurdle. Learning has to be personalized. Children learn at different paces. Learning has to be skills based. There’s a difference between testing and assessment. And that was a difference that parents couldn’t see. They were comfortable with: ‘Haan, test karo, test karo, test karo’ (Yes, Test, Test & Test) But if you say – But we’re assessing. The only assessment that parents knew were a paper-pencil test. Anything beyond that, if you said, ‘Well actually, I got them to stand up and talk about the poem and I assessed them on that’ holds no weight because it’s not tangible for the parent.

Then they had another problem. ‘But my child will not be competitive.’ And we said, ‘So what’s the problem with that?’ ‘But this is a competitive world’. So, well if your child can compete with himself or herself, that’s the most important thing.  He must do the best that he or she can do. Why does it matter that she has to do better than your neighbor?

Rima: But how do you get everybody on the same page?

Abha: A great deal of talking. We held so many seminars. I think I didn’t stop talking for 5 years, till they got so fed up of me really. So they said, ‘Okay, fine, fine, fine.’ And I talked and talked and talked. But most importantly, before even the parents, it was the teachers. There was a great deal of working with teachers in small groups. Visioning, it was the missioning, talking about the curriculum, getting them to see and commit that `yes, this is how we want to do it’. Very intensive teaching programmes. The next stage was the parents. And within 5 years the whole ‘They are guinea pigs’ was changed and so many schools began to follow – we became the norm- Small classes, quality control, low student teacher ratios, project work, different ways of assessment, no examinations till class 6, but assessment all the way through. Schools began to follow that And. now you see that’s the norm. The educational reforms are also reflecting exactly what’s happened so many years back.

Rima: What drove you as an educator to take this on…Yeah, I need to do it this way because that’s the way to go.

Abha: I think TSRS itself had a very specific, progressive philosophy. So there already existed a framework. I just did the painting. There was a picture. The vision was there. It was fleshed out and I did that bit.

Rima:  Did you think you were doing was something revolutionary then?

Abha: No, no, no. I didn’t see it as a crusade; I didn’t see it as an educational revolution. I had seen excellent practices overseas and I wanted to replicate those practices here. And I was so fortunate because I was surrounded by faculty that was like Buck’s Fizz. They were creative and unstoppable and a management that gave us carte blanche.

Rima:  So what were some of the struggles in the rollercoaster ride?

Abha: Getting the senior faculty on board at TSRS! Getting them to see- look there are different ways of doing things. We used the Total Quality Management approach in the school. That’s where the honesty came in- if this is the mission, how do you translate that mission through policies, into your school’s working. And huge number of systems also had to be put in place. So there was just the volume of it and then continuing to be centered. That was my job as Director eventually. That all three TSRS schools had to stay aligned.

Rima: What continues to be striking about the school is the open flow of ideas and feedback which has become a way of life even as the numbers have grown.

Abha: One of the wonderful definitions that I’ve come across is- What is school culture? When you say, I really like that school; you say so because you like the culture. What is the culture? School culture equals the way we do things around here. We were doing things in a particular way so we then translated those into systems. And ironed out the cracks. We didn’t impose a particular way of doing it and then following it. We had always felt the school had to be warm and welcoming. So the receptionist had to be warm and welcoming. It was “Namaskar, Shri Ram School. Can I help you?” And it wasn’t imported. That’s what we were doing. And we then made that into a standard operating procedure.

Rima:  Why should the so called ‘topper schools’ which are getting good grades and the best of marks be open to change?

Abha: I don’t think you judge schools by grades. I think grades are great. But are their children balanced, happy and wise? Do they do they appreciate beautiful things? Are they healthy in mind and soul? There are so many other things. Did the school, did somebody really impact their lives? I heard a story in the dentist’s sitting room yesterday. This was an artist, a very well known artist. And we were waiting for the dentist and he was in Modern School, my generation. So he grew up under the legendary Mr. Kapoor, who was the Principal. He told me this story. He said, “I was just not interested in what was going on in the class. So I would open my desk, prop it up with a book, take pieces of chalk, small needles, and I’d be carving.” So, he had a row of little figures that he had carved out of small pieces of chalk. And he is pretending to be listening, or perhaps listening. The Hindi teacher is walking around. He doesn’t see him, because he’s so concentrated on his carving. He takes his ear, twists it around, and said “You’re going to come with me to the Principal.” So he marches him off to the Principal with a fistful of pieces of carved chalk. In the Principal’s office he puts the chalk on the table and said “Dekheeye yeh kya kar raha tha …” (Look, this is what he was doing). And Mr. Kapoor looks at the carvings and says, “Bhai, these are beautiful! These are stupendous! Young man you have real talent. I would like you to put these on a base and I want you to display these at the annual show. And, pay a little attention in class. It will help you.” He said, “I decided that day that I was going to be a sculptor.”  So one interaction, which could have gone so horribly wrong, made him decide that he would be a sculptor. And today he is world famous.  So is your school doing that? Have your teachers, has the school culture impacted on the lives of students, other than giving them their marks?

Rima: Is the B.Ed. offered in universities enough to become the new age teacher for the next gen kids?

Abha:  If the school really wants to make that change and wants to make that difference, then of course it’s like a whole lot of investment they first need on teacher training. At Step By Step School we’ve embedded a teacher training center in the school. And that began to function before the school began. So there are a group of people who have been ideating and thinking about it, talking about it, breathing it, discussing it, and working out that school culture which takes approximately 5 years.

Rima: The love of teaching…how do schools systematically ruin it for most teachers. Even the most enthusiastic teachers get sucked in and find it difficult to sustain.

Abha: Where is the joy if you’ve got 45 kids in a class or if you’ve got 50 kids in a class and you have a 40 minute or a 30 minute period.

Rima:  Yes, there is no connect at all.

Abha: How do you do that connect ? How do you do the cycle of understanding, sharing, the research etc.? You don’t. So you’re paying lip service to all of this. Its large classes that destroy people. Recently, we got an application and then we had a meeting with an excellent teacher had taught for 20 odd years in a government system. And now  wanted to move out. And we said why? She said, “You know, I tried so hard, I was idealistic; I wanted to teach, at a particular level, I didn’t want to go to the Private schools. But I’ve been teaching 60 kids. And I do election duty. I do Census duty. I love my children but I just feel so completely destroyed after all the administrative nonsense that I have to do.”  So your most enthusiastic, passionate teachers, you transfer them every 2 years. You need a pull…politicians. And I’m talking about the Government Sector. You don’t value them. Why are you giving them 60 children in a class with no drinking water, no toilets and no resources! And then you expect them to turn around and transform. So that destroys people.

In the Private Sector where things are better, in the well heeled private schools, teaching is quite relentless. It’s very hard work. And there’s some very interesting research that says that teachers make approximately 3000 decisions a week. This is, a child will say – “I want to go to the toilet?” Now that’s a decision. Should I let him go… if I let him go, I think his friend would also want to as well…They’re probably going to run around the block, and throw paper out of the window or whatever. So you’re taking split second decisions. And they may not appear to be ‘CEO’ decisions. But they’re pretty important to the running of a school.

Rima:   It’s actually being part Mom for 30 kids!

Abha: Part Guide, Nurse, Psychologist, Mentor, Friend, Coach…everything!

Rima:  The educational reforms propose the formation of the National Curriculum Framework (NCF) for Teacher Training. Any thoughts on what the NCF should have to make education more “teacher friendly”?

Abha: I think teachers should be allowed to do what they do best. And that is learning and then teaching-learning. The more we embroil them in ancillary activities, of census and election and every other State duty that destroys it completely. Teachers need to be valued. We need to respect them much more. And there has to be more adulation. More celebration of what they do. And that doesn’t happen.

Schools that have good school cultures, celebrate the successes of their teachers. But I don’t see that happening everywhere. And schools need to change the way they function. You’ve got to have flatter structures; you’ve got to have a more democratic way of operating. You can’t have this command and control model where the Principal is God. If that’s the case, then one may as well go to heaven! (Laugh)

So the NCF needs to change the working conditions of teachers in the State Sector. And give them autonomy. Don’t be prescriptive about – ‘You have to teach this…from this book…in these 2 lines.’ The most successful schools are those where there is freedom, autonomy, where teachers are empowered to teach and then left to it. Of course, monitor.  And pull up those who don’t deliver. And those who do deliver celebrate that.

Rima:  We all talk about teacher training but what about Principals? Principals need to be trained as well.

Abha: I think Principals have to understand that they are managers of people. For far too long, because of the dearth of the supply and high demand, they’ve become gods… demi-gods. So at one point I was asked, way back in my TSRS days, “My goodness! How does it feel to be so powerful?”  I would ask them, “Where is the power?” But clearly, the power lay in the admissions. I never saw myself in that light because the admission process would just break my heart. I feel so strongly that it should be parental choice and not the other way around. And we have no business playing god as schools. So I think that is something that Principals need to have a reality check on. That, look guys, you are managers of people, and a learning institution. And focus on that. Not on the trappings of power. But then as long as this market remains driven by demand, and there’s so little quality supply, then it’s going to be back to the command and control triangle.

For education to change, the quality of institutions has to change. The school cultures have to change. You’ve got to be democratic flat organizations where you work within teams and lead those teams. By himself or herself, a Principal cannot bring about change. It’s only when it percolates to every single member of your team. And it’s such a finely crafted machine where every cog is valuable. If each cog does, each person does what they’re supposed to do, you’re fabulously successful.

When I think of TSRS, one of its major successes was the association it had and continues to have with its parents. And that is something I believe in. And this is an instinct, more than anything else, that you cannot educate children successfully unless you are in partnership with the parents. You just cannot…at all! And the parents are such a fabulous resource. You get so much strength from them. And you can’t see parents as irritants. Of course, they will be confused, they’ll be bewildered, and they’ll want to interfere, all the rest of it. But you hold your ground, you be professional and they are your greatest allies.

I often refer to it (parent-school association) as a marriage. When you put your child in a school, 14 years you are with that institution. You know partnerships don’t last that long. And just like in any partnership, it’s a roller coaster. So commit to it. I think it’s a stronger one than marriage because your kids are at stake. (laughs)

Rima:    When do you feel most alive, as a school Principal/Advisor or an Education Consultant or as a Writer who could influence thought?

Abha: Without a doubt when I’m with children. Writing does nothing for me. It’s a lonely process… but suddenly people read it and I get SMSs, “Great stuff Mrs. A… really loved the piece”, and I think – Oh great!  I’m a very bad consultant, and an advisor. Even there, if I could get away more, then I’d be with children and with faculty.

Rima:  So what gives you hope now?

Abha: The kids give me hope. And always have. They are so wide eyed and so open and so embracing of what’s new and so discerning of what doesn’t work. Faculty gives me hope when I see how, particularly where I am right now, that whole journey that they’ve taken, of teaching, learning in a new way, this skills based training that they have received and I see the excitement and the sense of achievement that they have when they’ve gone through a particular cycle of learning. And that gives me hope. When I see children happily laughing and walking into school and bouncing when they leave and then bouncing back the next day and I think, great, that’s happiness. I wonder if CEOs feel like that.

~ by rimachibb on March 4, 2010.